oil as hook in the jaw of Gog Magog?

Dan Bryan "Christine,
If Russia destroys Turkey, then what and where is the hook and who is it for in your world view?
I do not believe Turkey or Russia as one being mutually exclusive to the other.
We will see how it plays out. " (prefix to this is proof that Russia is not Gog Magog, but that Magog
and Meshech and Tubal are Anatolian locations, i.e., in Turkey. this refers to an earlier post at
cumbey's site, here is a better link than there http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=3974 )

yes we will see how it plays out. However, the test of a theory is its ability to predict accurately
something or other. Back in August, http://seventhchapterofdaniel.blogspot.com/2015/08/bear-may-put-boots-on-ground-in-syria.html
I predicted that both Russia and China will be boots on the ground in the Middle East, and
it was after that that in fact they did. and do. http://seventhchapterofdaniel.blogspot.com/2015/09/told-you-so.html

basis one, identification of the bear as Russia and the four headed leopard as China in
Daniel 7. And the rule, extractable from reading the Bible, observing what is spoken of
in prophecy, that a. everything centers on Israel the people and the land and b. to be in
prophecy you have to be either in the Middle East (including outside as homeland but
borders or imperial holdings into the Middle East, OR a MAJOR PLAYER. Britain-America is not
Middle Eastern but Britain has held ground in the Middle East, and has reshaped its map
the Sykes-Picot agreement creating the nation states we see there now. Britain put Israel
after the flesh back in Israel geographically, America has supported her. America has been
meddling in the Middle East and Egypt all along. So that means that the identification by
a couple of others on youtube, of the eagle winged lion as Britain or as both Britain and
America, can be like IS correct.

At this point someone will say "oh, Christine knows better than all the bible scholars of
centuries past." To which I say, try putting sola scriptura in practice. which you don't.
throw out the scholars and just READ the Scripture, whole chapters and surrounding chapters,
or whole books at a time. Let it speak for itself. The picture that emerges when you tie it
all together is yes Trinitarian no not mechanistic dispensational or pre trib yes zionism
is correct (aside from any excesses or abuses at times).

basis two, existing interests. Russia and China, both oil and trade and now concerns about
jihadi Islam. ISIS endangers the first and powers up the second with jihadi groups in
the Far East and Africa swearing allegiance to ISIS. russia is concerned as now Orthodox
with holy sites and some or all Christian groups in the Middle East. the UN is apparently
acknowledging or working on acknowledging Palestinian claims to Jewish AND Christian sites
(including the Holy Sepulchre) as being properly Palestinian and muslim sites. The possibility
exists of an attempt to interfere with the Holy Fire ceremony on Orthodox (Old Calendar)
Holy Saturday, which would put Palestinians on Russian radar so to speak. Or the intent
would do so. This would partner Russia with Israel, since Israel's interests are to keep
Palestinians from gaining such control especially over Jewish holy sites which are generally
also Christian because of shared interest in graves of Old Testament patriarchs.
now, basis one might be wrong in terms of this being THE time for this to play out, it might
be a dry run and fizzle, and power up again later and then play out. But fizzle or not,
you could expect some presence temporary if fizzle or permanent (with Russian borders
extended into the Middle East overrunning Turkey) if it is THE time.

The phenomenon of a hook drawing out someone to be attacked more effectively when they
think they are going to conquer, is a play you can find in military and personal brawls. In
the case of the Gog Magog war this might have some kind of play before the Second Coming,
but Revelation names it as after the devil is released after being totally bound instead
of only crippled and partly bound for a thousand years after the Second Coming.

If it plays out in prototype, then Turkey would be attacking Israel, but note the partners
in the attack Ezekiel describes are mostly NOT ARAB and include Shia Iran, which is odd for the present time. Iran considers Karbala more sacred than Mecca which makes nuclear war with
Saudi Arabia not unthinkable. Nuking Jerusalem would be out of the picture for both
because of the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock issue. That list of attackers in Ezekiel 38
tends to argue against present times.

IF it plays out as prototype to the later last war in Revelation, then if I understand the
prophets right Jesus will be back on that "day" which could be up to a thousand years
maximum from then, and to some extent will intervene against the invasion. Probably to
save the Holy Sepulchre. Whether in some miraculous way or not is another matter.
It might however be a marker that sets the clock ticking.

So since the ingathering of the Jews is after the fullness of the Gentiles is ingathered,
and we don't know when that is, it follows we can't do anything near date setting, not
just on day and hour as Jesus said but on year. All talk of The Tribulation starts at
such and such a time is nonsense. Mostly from an Amerocentric view. Is our democracy in
danger? our civil rights in danger? the antichrist is near and the Tribulation is starting.
nonsense. the unexamined and false premise is that the USA is somehow a new Israel, that
as one poet or preacher claimed in the 1800s we are the shining city on a hill Jesus mentioned
in a parable whose point was visibility nothing more, sure God has blessed us and used us
but for how long? this blessing and using can be seen at times in history regarding other
peoples for a time.  America could continue as a recognizable entity under any form of
government it would still be part of the Eagle Winged Lion.

Meanwhile, the New Age movement the political side of it, is an effort to evade prophecy
and to establish the antichrist under conditions of seduction of and willing agreement by
everyone, which if successful would be a slap in God's face, so IT WILL NOT SUCCEED.

The deceptiveness and flatteries the antichrist uses to come to power should be read in
context of the little horn displacing three out of ten horns of the last empire, which
does not exist yet. Not in terms of getting the whole world to join on the basis of unity
as an end in itself. This doesn't mean the New Age Movement shouldn't be fought, merely
because its political side, The New World Order, is doomed. the NAM spirituality being to springboard the political side. the fight against it is one of the ways God will stop it. But
the total eradication of mystical type politics of one sort or another probably won't happen
until the Second Coming. For instance, there might be a Nazi overt resurgence in Germany
or in some out of the way place. There are and probably will continue various governments
that are officially in league with false religions some of which have a New Age pseudo
spirituality angle to them. But the One World Government won't happen until it is done
by conquest of all the world, including conquest of America, Russia and China, by
military force. The flatteries and deceptions used by the antichrist to come to power will
be directed at that empire AFTER it is in place, not as the means of getting everyone to
peacefully join to form that empire.

The last empire, the fourth beast, conquers the other three empires, not growing out of
or inheriting from as some who think these are the same as the statue dream say, but stamps
and crushes them they are contemporaneous. After ruling for an unspecified length of time,
this empire will apparently have a triumvirate, or be split into three joined kingdoms
under joint rule. THAT is when the antichrist will either displace a triumvirate, or
displace the joint rule and rule alone.

An example of how prophecy experts don't READ the Bible they merely STUDY the Bible meaning
verses here verses there and the patchwork result Scofield based and other study guides
give them, is that now I keep running into "the seven year tribulation."

THERE IS NO SUCH THING. the tribulation is stated in Revelation and elsewhere as three and a
half years. The antichrist's rule doesn't begin with persecution, it is only the last
three and a half years that he does this.

Told You So.

http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/putin-to-russian-army-officers-operation-salvation-shall-begin-soon,-you-must-prepare-to-cleanse-syria-from-obama-s-terrorists

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2015/09/30/syria-the-chinese-will-be-arriving-in-the-coming-weeks/?fb_action_ids=882605191835835&fb_action_types=og.comments

http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/can-china-stomach-an-independent-kurdistan/

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/chinabrief/single/?tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=3919&no_cache=1#.VgwW42nn-1s

New Speculation, just to be fair.

Okay, let's consider other possibilities just in case. Let's assume I'm wrong,
and being a major player in the Middle East is not good enough to put
you in prophecy, you got to BE there as official presence, as in your borders
include places in the Middle East. not just influence. not just military presence
and rewriting the map, if you are not there including it or part of it in YOUR
map, you don't fit.

So on that basis, lets look at some other possibilities.

The bear is going to have to continue to be Russia, since this prophecy points to
the last times, and it is already established popularly as "the bear." Originally
an insult, slow and stupid, it was adopted by Russia for somewhat different
reasons.

The eagle winged lion and the four headed leopard now become problematic.

A future Kurdistan, become an imperial force there, would likely be one of
these two. Because of the four locations of Kurdistan as a geographic region
split between four countries, they might fit. And the four fowl could be
about layers of flight if they get technologically competent, or chickens, ducks,
geese and pigeons, a popular pet or hobby in the Middle East. This is more
specific than just song birds in cages, a Chinese tradition, as the fourth fowl.

However, Rojava canton of Syria is allied to the PKK of Turkey, same
admired founding leader same ideology, and if Turkey loses control of its
Kurdistan then these would unite and there would be one Kurdistan. The KRG
run Kurdistan in Iraq is of a very different ideology and proclivity, though it
also has women warriors. what form Iranian Kurdistan would take is open to
question, but it might join with them, leaving two Kurdistans, instead of
four under an umbrella government. Or only one. The geographic designations
might remain, so this is dicey.

Kurds and others refer to themselves as lions, but Kurds also refer to the
golden eagle symbolism. So perhaps it is the Eagle winged Lion. If that is the
case, it will become a regional power, eventually get its wings plucked and
become repentant of whatever. Mass conversion to Christianity including the
Zoroastrian influenced cultists among them?

If Iran is the Eagle Winged Lion and they also have lion symbolism, then a
similar future awaits.

So either one might be the lion, or the leopard. China and Russia might well
rewrite the map, and if Russia conquers Turkey and liberates some of its peoples,
China could still be outside the Middle East as a mere military player not land
acquirer, while Russia's borders would expand to include the heartland of
old Byzantium, aka Turkey.

So Russia is the only solid identified thing here, and is fitting the picture well
so far.  The ribs that advise more action, while appearing to be victims.
Crimea for instance.

Iran is moving into Iraq against ISIS and claiming Bagdad in theory at least
as a new capital. China and Russia  if they side with the Kurds  might well
push Iran to release its Kurdistan.   They are both highly pragmatic, and the
Kurds have established themselves as the most viable local force against
ISIS.

If the Kurds are the four headed leopard, then the four wings might
represent among other things, four supports to them, Russia, China, USA
and Israel which has covertly supported them. 

The fourth empire will arise after ALL these are established as regional
powers, and will crush them all, and likely crush Russia in its homeland,
and the other supporters of the leopard.

But the stress going on in the Ukraine, and in the Pacific, could easily
result in WW 3 and a major loss for the USA, maybe occupation of it.

I still prefer the original scenario, because Britain-America was the means
God used to put Israel in place, and Britain rewrote the Middle Eastern
map. 

Bear may put boots on the ground in Syria?

http://awdnews.com/top-news/russian-president-to-turkish-ambassador-tell-your-dictator-president-he-can-go-to-hell-along-with-his-isis-terrorists,-i-will-make-syria-a-big-stalingrad-for-him

Like I said, to be in prophecy you got to be in the Middle East, or a
major player there.  This situation could be what brings Russia in to
Syria, and if Turkey ever gets kicked out of NATO Russia can safely
mop up the floor with it.

The Winged lion of Venice - an eagle's wings and transplanted to England

re reading Webster Griffin Tarpley's Against Oligarchy, an online
book at his page http://tarpley.net I decided to have a look at the
St. Mark's lion of Venice.

Venice claims St. Mark as its patron saint and this saint has been
equated to the lion in four headed angel of Ezekiel's vision. But
this lion was not made in reference to St. Mark but is older.
Aside from modern repairs after two destructive incidents, bits
and pieces of it date centuries BC and it seems to have been
constructed c. 300 BC.

"The Lion sculpture has had a very long and obscure history,
probably starting its existence as a winged lion-griffin statue on
a monument to the god Sandon at Tarsus in Cilicia (Southern
Turkey) about 300 BC.^[2] The figure, which stands on the
eastern column, at some point came to represent the “Lion of
Saint Mark”, traditional symbol of Saint Mark the evangelist."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_of_Venice

as you can see, it has an eagle's wings.

the face is not typically lionlike, a wider mouth and blunter nose more
like some mythical creature, or the lions of Chinese style, which since
they had no lions they modeled on the pekingnese dog, when having to
do Buddhist symbols.

It is however clearly....an eagle winged lion.

http://tarpley.net/online-books/against-oligarchy/how-the-venetian-system-was-transplanted-into-england/

so the Venetian monster described in the other chapters,  became the
backbone of Britain from which came America. Britain is all about lions,
some of them winged, and America is symbolized by an eagle, a bird of
prey.  America is British linguistically, culturally and in its founding and
primary power element till recently, ethnically. Britain itself is of Celtic
Norwegian and Danish origins.

Tarpley  is pathetic regarding Byzantium and Orthodoxy and anything
east of Venice, but an expert on Venice and western Europe.

ISIS Declares Governorate in Russia’s North Caucasus Region

http://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/isis-declares-governorate-russia%E2%80%99s-north-caucasus-region

"Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov subsequently claimed on April 22 that ISIS is Russia’s “greatest enemy,” ranked above China or NATO.  The Russian government will likely use the announcement of Wilayat Qawqaz as a justification to vigorously stamp out separatist sentiment in southern Russia. This may counterproductively fuel popular discontent and militant recruitment within the region. Russia also may use the development as a pretext to increase its involvement in Syria and Iraq, where it has recently equipped the Iraqi Security Forces with new supplies of Russian anti-tank rockets."

Meanwhile, Uighur separatists acted up in China killing some police or military
people.

The groundwork is being laid for Russia and China to become major players in
the Middle East. Even if the four headed leopard turns out to be Kurdistan, become
an independent  nation or perhaps cooperative between four Kurdistans which becomes
a regional power, this would likely happen as the result of Russian and maybe
Chinese  action.

new insights from a preterist idiot who has some things right

http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/1921_mauro_seventyweeks.pdfthis comes from the preterist archive, so is part of the body of works the preterists,
who deny any prophecy remains to be fulfilled, put to their use.

however, although he misses the cue that the four beasts are not the ancient
empires but modern ones, the point he makes about the seventy weeks and the
last week is telling. But only regarding THAT part of prophecy.

THE SEVENTY WEEKS AND THE TRIBULATION by Mauro.

I haven't finished the second part, but he makes the interesting point that
no interpreters of prophecy before recent to the early part of the 20th
century (maybe 100 years or less probably less) had related "the prince
to come" to the antichrist, or split the last week into at least 2,000
years. The desolation of AD 70 was originally supposed to happen 3 1/2
years after Jesus' Crucifixion and Resurrection, but because of HIs prayer,
:Father forgive them for they know not what they do" it was delayed
and thousands were converted by the Apostles' preaching among the
Jews. so a lacuna in time was added, but nothing as outrageous as
taken for granted now.

THIS IS NOT WHAT THE THREE AND A HALF YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD IDEA IS
BASED ON, THOUGH IT OFTEN REFERS TO THAT, BUT TO THE TIME AND TIMES AND
A HALF IN REVELATION.

The ending of the sacrifices was the ending of their validity before God,
and a Talmudic source said that the ribbon that would change color on
the scape goat every year, ceased to do so for a number of years before
AD 70 - the same number that began at the Crucifixion and Resurrection
of Christ, though of course the Talmud didn't make that connection. I
don't have the source in front of me right now.

That doesn't rule out some end time Temple happening, but whatever the
abomination of desolation or that makes desolate is, since this is an
event apparently in future, something comparable to what was already
fulfilled in the days of the Maccabbees, it would have to do with the
antichrist likely enough. the second half of this book will probably
make a case for whatever it is. But the early Church Fathers knew
all that had happened that fulfilled Daniel's prophecy to a T regarding
the kings of north and south, yet expected it to replay to some extent
again later.

But a seven year treaty with Israel is probably not in the offing.

you guys (and myself till now) have been looking for the wrong indicators.
Meanwhile, look for Russia and China to become major presences in the
Middle East first, perhaps China is the four headed leopard, or perhaps
Russia will crush Turkey and Kurdistan (which would also fit the leopard)
will be established. Time will tell.

 

reading more, this guy is definitely a total preterist. But long
after AD 70 we have the beast the antichrist being predicted and
described in Revelation. And persecution of saints, tribulation
by definition. Also described in Daniel chapter 7. As I pointed
out, early writers expected some of Daniel's prophecies about
Antiochus Epiphanes and Herod to replay again.

dismissing waking as merely spiritual waking, not resurrection,
though it talks about waking from dust, is more of the
spiritualization of literal things that prophecy and bible truth
twisters always do. A jump is obviously done from Herod and AD 70
to a much later time, and Revelation fits this. John the Baptist's
preaching hardly awakened them from centuries of spiritual sleep
since many had been faithful to YHWH all that time, though he
awakened some to repentance from sin and faithlessness. But to
argue that awakening spiritually doesn't mean you will be saved
is absurd. Those who rejected Jesus could hardly be said to
have been awakened in the first place.

Rev. 12:13 and 14:5 use the phrase time, times and a half and
42 months which is the same thing. So clearly, this which was
written c. AD 100, is not a rehash of Daniel's prophecies
leading up to AD 70. There IS a replay going to happen to some
extent. Not exact, but the critically weird stuff will.

signs in the sun and moon and stars he "spiritualizes" into
referring to earthly human powers instead of the obvious literal
interpretation. This is important history, but by denying the
obvious resurrection passages of Daniel and spiritualizing
anyting thatdoesn't fit preterism, he goes astray.

2:25 AM

 

Mauro's claiming that the king who does not regard the desire
of women (this is Herod) is against the Messiah who all women
want to give birth to, is weak because the speaking against
the most High would already apply to his effort to kill Christ
so the massacre of the innocents is probably not the issue.
http://www.mycrandall.ca/courses/NTIntro/InTest/Hist7.htm
details his interesting stresses with women and he had 9 wives
throughout his life.